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This is the Building Blocks of Success with Glenn Mattson.
Glenn Mattson
Hey, everybody.
Glenn Mattson
Welcome to the Building Blocks of Success.
Glenn Mattson
As we start to go into our season six today on episode seven, we're going to be taking a look at something called the imposter syndrome. And interestingly enough, with all the coaching that we do with enormous amount of successful entrepreneurs and individuals that really self-made, right? Just a normal individual that decided to have extraordinary lifestyle and really take on and have really extraordinary decisions and stress and et cetera, that really got them to the point of their success.
Glenn Mattson
And I want to dig into what I consider, and very few people want to chat about, is really is that imposter syndrome. And it's that little voice inside of our head that whispers, you just don't belong here. You're over your skis. This is not someplace you should be. And that sense at that moment really goes to figure it's not a very good, not smart. We're going to figure out that I don't know what I'm doing.
Glenn Mattson
People may figure out that I don't know what I'm talking about. People may figure out that I'm not as smart as other people think I am. Sometimes your reputation is better than your reality. And it's just not a mindset. Unfortunately, it's an identity issue. And I got to say, where does it come from? Where does this happen? And I want to dig deep into it because it's a lot more common than you may think. Again, it's that thought process of, I just don't belong here. It's that sense at any moment, someone's going to figure out that you're not as good as you should be, or you're not as good as your results are.
Glenn Mattson
You're not as good as your accolades are, or you just came back from an annual meeting and you run an award and you really don't want to share with anyone that, heck, this is by luck potentially. So let's take a look at this imposter syndrome because it's not really random at all. It is really is created and it's built from a mix of nature and nurture. And what I mean by that is a lot of messages are passed down through generations from upbringing, parental scripts, and maybe it came from parents. They set impossible standards, right?
Glenn Mattson
Or a culture that consistently pushed perfectionism, or maybe you're raised believing that asking for help or looking for help means you're weak. How many of you came home with an A grade and your parents looked at you and said, really, we really expected an A+? Or when you went in and asked for help or said you needed a tutor and they kind of looked at you and made you feel like you're inferior because you just couldn’t figure it out yourself. So how many of us out there had these scripts? And you may say to yourself, yeah, but those scripts pushed me. Those scripts made me better than who I am. Well, that's when you start looking at saboteurs.
Glenn Mattson
And saboteurs are those belief systems in the bottom that if you follow, they will unfortunately start to lead to some success. But then all of a sudden that saboteur starts to control you like a controller or an overachiever or someone who feels like a victim or a pleaser. They are these scripts that we have in the back of our head. And those scripts really start to dictate what you do or don't do and create, start to create some results. And I want to go through these, what I really call this nature of nurture, where how many of us, when you did something, it wasn't good enough. When you did something, it was, oh, all right, well, you know what? Your brother did this, or your sister got this, or well, you noticed that your cousin did this. And there's always a comparison, which is really where it leads me to the next one is you have those impossible standards. You have that perfectionism is really where it drives a lot of it too, is a comparison. And a comparison happens where when all of a sudden someone turns to you and says, again, that's a constant trap of measuring yourself against somebody else and someone else's highlight reels, right?
Glenn Mattson
The best of the best. You only see the home run. You only see the person who finishes the finish line with their hands up in the air, not all the trials and tribulations that get there. And when you start comparing yourself, it is a trap. It's measuring yourself against someone else. And social media, brothers, sisters, individuals, why can't you be more like your brother? Why can't you be more like your sister? And how many of us, when we are doing comparisons, we have to understand that you are inherently different than everybody else. And perfection is unattainable. Comparison is unfulfilling. And neither of those will help you grow.
Glenn Mattson
And then I want you to realize that a lot of this imposter syndrome comes from what I call the fixed mindset. And fixed mindset is also what we call at-leasters. And at least there is someone who believes that you are where you are and your skills are locked in. Your growth is what it is. And no matter what you do, you're not going to get any better or any worse than where you are. So why try? And this really feeds into the imposter syndrome, especially under pressure and especially when they're isolated and you feel like you have to do it all on your own. So how does that and where does it show up?
Glenn Mattson
Let me share with you what it may sound like for some of you. And salespeople, do you find yourself over preparing to the point that you're burned out? And a lot of times people over-prepare because they want to really understand that the more I'm prepared, the more I'm in control. And if I work hard enough, I should be in control of every situation. So therefore my anxiety goes down. And those individuals says, if I don't control it, it's their belief system. If I don't control it, then I will be controlled. They take a look at this controlling aspect, which unfortunately is over-preparation.
Glenn Mattson
That's the thing when you're going to sleep and you wake up at two o'clock in the morning and you have a to-do list in your head.
- Did you do this?
- Did you do this?
- How about this?
- You should get this done.
- If you don't do this, you're never going to win.
Glenn Mattson
So all of a sudden, the over-preparing turns into burnout. We also have a tendency to look at what the imposter syndrome is avoiding calls. And there's a big fear of rejection inside of the imposter syndrome. But another big one is hiding behind scripts, hiding behind what you're supposed to say and data instead of being yourself. A lot of times those individuals don't want feedback. They don't want to listen to other people. They've been ingrained in their head that no matter what you're going to do, you're never going to be good enough.
Glenn Mattson
So if you find yourself preparing, and I don't mean prepare so that you have ownership and et cetera, I get that part. I'm talking about people who prepare because they're preparing, because they are terrified of not knowing the answer. They are terrified of not having, or having someone ask them a question they're not ready for. They don't want to be ousted. They don't want to be shown up.They don't want anyone to know that they don't know.
Glenn Mattson
So they have a tendency to truly over-prepare.
Glenn Mattson
And I see that all the time with salespeople.
- I need to know the answer about this.
- I need to know the answer about that.
- I need to have the background.
Glenn Mattson
You got to realize product knowledge and understanding the data points is for confidence. And it's for you to actually understand how to ask the right questions at the right time. Having that information doesn't mean that you are smarter or not than anybody else. It just gives you the comfort to know where you are. And if you know reversing, if you don't know the answer, it only takes you two or three moves or two or three questions to uncover what the answer is from the prospect's standpoint anyways. But it pops up in salespeople a lot. It also pops up in managers and entrepreneurial and owners. So let's talk about where it looks in leadership.
Glenn Mattson
First piece where the imposter syndrome pops up quite a bit, honestly, is in hesitation. In hesitation of making decisions, in hesitation of taking action. How many of us, our belly button says, this is not working out? As a matter of fact, I even had three calls this week with three different business owners. Two had to do with staff and one had to do with the salesperson. One of those individuals, I've been having the same conversation with the same staff person since January, six and a half, seven months.
Glenn Mattson
And when you're having that conversation, I'm starting to get a feeling that they may not be the right piece. I'm getting an understanding that this isn't going to happen in there. They're telling about their feelings and they have data points to prove that the person that they're hiring to do this task is not executing. They're not the right person. They're great people, not the right person. So they have a tendency to really hesitate. And the reason they hesitate is they don't want to make the wrong decision.
Glenn Mattson
In the back of their brain, I can hear him saying it is, well, the devil I know is a devil better than I don't know, right? And-so we really have to look at the hesitation and why. Are you gathering data or are you afraid to pull the trigger? And that hesitation historically is afraid to pull the trigger. One of them even said, Glenn, I'm really good at one or two things. And my relationship with this individual has been for 15 years. She knows everything about the business, what to do, how to do it, the way it's like to have it done. Quite honestly, I didn't even know half the stuff that she does that I need to replace. So hesitation is a big thing.
Glenn Mattson
Now, interestingly enough, people who also have the imposter syndrome have a tendency to micromanage. They have a tendency to push people and push a lot of their scripts on top of people. Because if you get it wrong, then it looks like I'm not knowing what I'm doing. Or if you get it wrong, it's going to expose, I don't know what I'm doing. So a lot of times managers, besides hesitation, is they also have a tendency to micromanage. And this is the one that I find quite a bit. That's one of the easier ones to see is the hesitation is about making tough decisions. The hesitation is about taking action.
Glenn Mattson
But the imposter syndrome for managers and for leaders is they avoid making the tough decision. They also have a tendency of not giving feedback. And a lot of times they don't give feedback because they're not sure if the feedback is accurate. They just don't have confidence in their ability to see things accurately. You know, at the end of the day, some of us would call it a reputation gap. And a reputation gap is, is that I've been at this job long enough, enough tenure that everyone assumes I know everything.
Glenn Mattson
That's like when you go talk to someone who's been, you know, for instance, in producing for quite a long time and their business is running so well that they don't even have to ask for business anymore or get referrals or go out and go get cold business. It’s, “I've been doing this for so long, Glenn, everyone thinks I'm great at it, but hell, I can't even tell you the last time I asked for a referral.” And now they're embarrassed to be in a room full of people that are learning to or trying to learn how to get new business because of that. Again, avoiding the tough decisions and giving feedback that someone's going to find out that I don't know what I'm talking about. I find it also a lot when I have a manager who was not a very good salesperson now managing salespeople. I have a tendency to see that when someone looks at certain individuals, i.e. more tenured individuals on the team, they feel very uncomfortable holding them accountable because they have more tenure.
Glenn Mattson
So when we look at the Superman syndrome, ask yourself, are you over preparing? Are you over preparing because you don't want to look foolish? Or you're over-preparing to make sure that you can be in the present moment and not have to think about what you're doing. I'm okay with that part. But if you're over-preparing and the reason behind it is that you don't want to have something pop up, you don't want someone to ask a question you don't have the answer to, that's the imposter syndrome. If you know what you should do and you have to pull the trigger, and I'm not talking about having a fear of rejection of potentially your team, which is part of it. But when you know deep down inside that you have to let someone go, you know deep down inside it's time to pull a trigger on whatever you need to do.
Glenn Mattson
And you choose not to because you don't want to upset the apple cart, because you don't want to have people understand that you may not be as good as you are. That's really what we're talking about. We've got to understand here, this is not a skill problem. This is a self-esteem problem. You cannot outperform your own self-image.Let me give that to you again. You cannot outperform your own self-image. So deep down, if you believe you're average, your results will eventually match up with that belief, no matter how hard you work. So when we're looking at this stuff, like, you know, this is one of my favorite one-liners I give a lot of people and hopefully it could be of benefit for you too, is there's a big difference when you look at risking, failing, having the ability to learn on your own, having the ability to get to that next level.
Glenn Mattson
So when you're looking at risk, you're looking at failure. If you see failure as a negative, therefore you're never going to take risks because you don't want people to see you as he doesn't know what they're doing or she doesn't know what she's doing. So when we look at failure, you have to ask yourself, do you feel that you failed at something or do you feel you're a failure because of something? I.e., I can't prospect, so therefore I'm a failure because I can't prospect. Or is it I failed at prospecting? You have to understand the difference. It is massive.
Glenn Mattson
Now, how do we break free of this stuff? So let's talk about it for a minute. And what I'm going to share with you is pretty easy and written word, but you got to spend some time working on it. The reality is, is that the imposter syndrome really is about a low self-esteem and you accomplish what you needed to accomplish. You got where you are, but realize that deep down inside, it is a self-esteem issue. How do you break free with it? Salespeople, first thing is, I want you to be curious. Stop obsessing about you. Stop obsessing about your fears and start actually being curious and focus on other people. Next is, and this is going to be crazy, but I want you to be authentic. And I hate, we use that word so much. Authentic is, I understand that if you're talking to a high D, you're going to have to convert your language and your body language to be more in sync with them. That I get.
Glenn Mattson
But you got to show up as who you are. Make sure that you understand that the world does not revolve around you. That stop being I-centered. Stop taking a look at why everything has to be around you. And as you're doing that, I want you to have a fixed, excuse me, a growth mindset. Growth mindset is a winner's mindset. And a winner believes that with time, energy, and effort, I can change and I can grow. A growth mindset also looks at failure and says, look, everyone has to fail. The faster I fail, the faster I learn. The faster I learn, the more I earn. So they don't like failure anymore. They're just not afraid of it. Same thing with a growth mindset when they look at obstacles or setbacks. Yeah, they don't like the obstacles. They don't like the setbacks. But a fixed mindset person, at least when they have an obstacle, why me? Why does this always happen to me? And they sit on the curb and they suck their thumb.
Glenn Mattson
Yet a winner would turn around and say that, “Hey, if we have obstacles,” the reality with an obstacle is that it occurs with everybody. And they know action breaks paralysis. So you have to take action when you have obstacles and you have to expect them. Nothing is linear. It's not flat. Everything you do towards your goal has highs and lows and you have to be prepared for them. And then when we look at it, also the growth mindset is practice. It's one of the biggest things I see in the imposter syndrome is when it's time to practice. I'll have 15, 20 people on a call and I'll say, okay, who wants to role play? And I can tell you instantaneously almost who has the imposter syndrome is those that start looking around almost like you don't see me.
Glenn Mattson
If I look towards the left or the right, my Zoom call, they're going to go away. It's the individuals that raise their hand and says, I'll practice, I'll try. See, practice and trying means that you may fail, but when you fail, you'll learn how to do it right. And they don't think as failure as weakness. They think it as an area for improvement so you can keep getting better. Yet, if you have the imposter syndrome, you don't even want to practice. You don't even want to get up there and try because people are going to look at you and say, oh, see, I thought they were better than really, they were. So we have to look at this and realize that things that you do in life, if you're afraid, if you're fearful of being caught or seen or uncovered or discovered, that's where it happens.
Glenn Mattson
Now, what happens if, and you look at, and you know, I are, if you don’t, it is the belief that all people enter into the world. Perfect. And they go to wherever they go at the end of the day. Perfect. Right. Womb to the tomb. And what happens in between messes us up, meaning that we're born with a perfect self-esteem inside. It's what our parents do to us or what we allow outsiders to do to us that will decrease that and make us feel less than we are. That's why if you…think you're four, you will act consistently in your roles between a three and a five. That's called the comfort zone. That's why the rule is you earn exactly what you think you're worth.
Glenn Mattson
The rule also is your average case size has more to do with your self-esteem than your skill.
Glenn Mattson
Who you call inside of an organization has to do with your self-esteem, not your skill. So when we look at all these things, you have to realize, again, you are 10 is what made you think you're less than that. And if you don't know much about our IR theory, I would have you listen to one of our other podcasts or dig into it. But it's a pretty interesting experience of saying that we're all born internally pretty damn perfect. It's the stuff that happens to us, the things that people say to us that make us start to believe that we're a little less than we are. Well, thank goodness Jimmy was at that soccer game today, right? You pass it to him and try to make that shot. And thank goodness he was there or he would have missed the goal and he got the score.
Glenn Mattson
It's all that stuff right there. You're constantly being compared. Thank goodness he was there. If it wasn't for this, you know, good thing your older brother is here or this would have happened. So all those things start to happen and we start to have these different scripts. So just realize that it's not about ego. It's not about that. It's about owning your own worth. It's about realizing that you do have worth. It's about realizing that you have accomplished things that other people couldn’t accomplish and accepting the fact that you've done what you've done, but it doesn't mean you're perfect. There's more to come. And you don't have to know everything. You knew what you needed to know to get to where you are.
Glenn Mattson
So when you look at sales managers, it's in a position to shape lives and ownership, right Owners and sales managers or VPs and et cetera. They have a tendency to put on a mask.
Glenn Mattson
They have a tendency to know all the answers or think they know all the answers or delay answering questions or be political in their questions because they don’t want to be vulnerable. Now, there's a difference between being friendly and being familiar. Being vulnerable means that you're human. It doesn't mean that you're weak. And I'm not asking you to be goofy or any of those things either. But as a manager, vulnerability is important. Now, this is going to be another one. Got to love your people. I'm not just talking about one or two that are cranking it and doing the best. I'm talking about you just don't appreciate the people that are outperforming. You have to appreciate everybody. And if you don't appreciate them, why do you have them on your team? They're all humans. They all have needs and wants. They all have fears and anxieties. They all want to be heard and understood.
Glenn Mattson
Now, when I say love your people, I mean part of this too, and it happens all the bloody time, especially to my hyper-achievers and my controllers. Your team will come in and say, look, we got this done. And all your response is, yeah, but you didn't do this. Or we still have to get this done. You know what, leaders, why don't you start trying to acknowledge progress? I know it's uncomfortable. I know it may be past and not something that you only want to look at the lagging indicators versus leading. I'd rather have you focus on what they did rather than focusing on what they missed. Spend time stroking them on the effort and energy it took to accomplish what they've done versus beating them up for what was missed.
Glenn Mattson
The other piece is, and this just drives me crazy. It just happened literally today. Give your team some autonomy. You got to trust them. Now, you can't give them autonomy without giving them direction and a framework and a scorecard, right? You got to do the delegation correctly. But give your team tasks. I don't know any leader that is not over their skis and would love to delegate. So it's out there. Start trusting your people. And if you trust in them, they will eventually start to trust in you. So you're very capable. They're capable. If you train them right, believe in they can do it. If they make mistakes, which you did too, understand it, address it, and help them learn from it. If you've been battling from the imposter syndrome, let me just remind you, your accomplishments are not by accident.
Glenn Mattson
You're not in a position by fluke. Your presence is not a mistake.I can't tell you how many people that I have that are self-made; self-made multimillionaires, have great businesses, yet they go into a room of quote-unquote think tank people or intellects, and they feel uncomfortable or they get in a room and saying, “Well, Glenn, I only have a $10 million business.” And I sit back and John or Adrian or someone else, I'm like, but look at what you've developed. And they will look around and they don't feel as comfortable because there's other people in the room that have different credentials or do it to different schools or speak a little differently than them in terms of eloquence or different words. And deep down inside, you've built something that the average person less than 0.01% can do.
Glenn Mattson
And all of you listening in, I don't even care if you're a successful entrepreneur with a $20 million business or someone who's just first starting out. You are and have accomplished things in your life. They're not accidents and they weren't by luck, except the fact that you've done things to get to where you are. You belong to where you are. You're not here to be perfect. You're not here to be present. So think about where you are. I can't tell you how many annual meetings I've been at where I'm starting to talk to someone. They go, man, I'm so excited to be here, but I can't believe I'm here. I don't know what to do. I mean, look at that person over there. Should I go say hi to them? I love this.
Glenn Mattson
I just have all of those individuals and they, they think, you know, they have lanyards that go from their chest all the way down to their feet and they drag on the floor because they're quote unquote, so successful. You know, I'm telling you, ask half those people and you sit down with them because we coach a ton of them and learn and work with a ton of those individuals, the number ones inside their industry, the number ones inside their home offices. And they, most of them will come back and say, I was just an average person who took more than average risk to have an extraordinary life in an extraordinary business. And I look around and sometimes I say to myself, how do I even get here? Do I even deserve this? And many of them don't realize that what they have done is amazing. It's okay to drop your armor. It's okay to drop the mask. It's okay to start sitting back and saying, Hey, I am pretty good at what I did. But I don't have to be perfect. I don't have to be 100%. I don't have to be the one that only sees the mistakes. So I want to say thanks for all of those of you who joined the Building Blocks of Success today.
Glenn Mattson
I hope this episode spoke with you and spoke to you. And if you hear yourself in it, pass it on. Share it with someone that may need to hear it. The imposter syndrome is everywhere and it doesn't have to be. And the amount of energy that we spend because of it and the amount of energy that people spend to cover it up when they don't have to is exhausting. Remember, you are exactly where you're supposed to be. You are meant to be where you are.
Glenn Mattson
Until we talk again, as always, keep building.
Glenn Mattson
This is the Building Blocks of Success with Glenn Mattson.
